[TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

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Axis
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Re: [TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

#16 » Post by Axis » 08 Jun 2020 05:01

psycroptyk wrote:
08 Jun 2020 04:45
from what ive seen so far on is that the new system is very rewarding for the winning team and very penalizing for the losing team, not sure if its working as intended or not
That's quite literally the opposite of what was intended with our changes.
In what way is it very penalizing for the losing team? Please be more specific.
Screenshots of final scoreboards would be quite useful here.
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paroliak
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Re: [TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

#17 » Post by paroliak » 09 Jun 2020 02:06

Very penalizing for the losing team?
--The losing team rating doesnt go below 1500. What more can we expect?

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psycroptyk
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Re: [TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

#18 » Post by psycroptyk » 09 Jun 2020 19:17

For example in 10 games 1800 team lost 280 rating in 10 losses against a 1450 team, and in those 10 wins 1450 team went up more than 300 rating

From what I understood high teams would be less penalized losing to new teams

+300 in 10 games over 1500 feels way too fast, but u can drop just as fast it seems

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Roel
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Re: [TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

#19 » Post by Roel » 09 Jun 2020 20:29

You can regain 300 rating about 3x as quickly compared to the old system but don't lose it 3x more quickly (maybe 2x). So it only seems penalizing due to the increased speed. Basically everyone can get a higher rating compared to before and you can even get 2000 rating with a 50% winrate while previously more wins were required against lower teams.

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Re: [TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

#20 » Post by bobsmyname » 09 Jun 2020 22:00

By the end of the 10 matches, the losing team (at 1470 mmr) was losing 30 rating from a loss, where the winning team (at 1730 mmr if I remember right) was only gaining 24 rating.

The rating losses from a lower rating team should not be higher than the rating gain against a higher rated team
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psycroptyk
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Re: [TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

#21 » Post by psycroptyk » 09 Jun 2020 22:09

On another note arena becomes almost unplayable once u hit the 5 minute wait mmr gap

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Bradonja
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Re: [TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

#22 » Post by Bradonja » 09 Jun 2020 22:22

Yeah... if you could just remove or reduce the wait time for arena game to pop due to MMR difference, there would be no need for these changes in the first place

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Re: [TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

#23 » Post by Roel » 09 Jun 2020 22:52

bobsmyname wrote:
09 Jun 2020 22:00
By the end of the 10 matches, the losing team (at 1470 mmr) was losing 30 rating from a loss, where the winning team (at 1730 mmr if I remember right) was only gaining 24 rating.

The rating losses from a lower rating team should not be higher than the rating gain against a higher rated team
No changes were done to this. Previously this would have been a 30/3=10 rating loss and 24/3=8 rating gain, it's because mmr is not the only factor in the calculation. But the baseline rating is 36 now (previous was 12) against a team with all ratings equal. So the lower team would always gain more than 36 rating in case they win.

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bobsmyname
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Re: [TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

#24 » Post by bobsmyname » 09 Jun 2020 23:05

What're the other factors? Team rating?
The winning team, before that game was at 1754 and gained 24
The losing team was at 1553 and lost 30

I'm fairly certain that unless there's something else entirely I'm unaware of the lower rated team should not have a bigger loss than the higher rated team's gain
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Re: [TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

#25 » Post by Roel » 10 Jun 2020 00:07

Let's see, this is the actual chance calculation that we haven't touched:
https://github.com/TrinityCore/TrinityC ... m.cpp#L679
I don't know if it's the same as what Blizzard used, they haven't revealed everything.

For the change in team rating this compares your own team rating with the average MMR of the opponents. Your own MMR and the team rating of the opponent appear irrelevant so teams will get different results.
1754 - 1470 = 284
1553 - 1730 = -177
So even without calculating the actual chance, we can see that the winning team showed a higher rating difference in this example. And the higher that difference, the less their team rating will change. If they instead lost this match then they would also lose less than the other team would gain.

It might seem weird but this calculation avoids problems when a high MMR team creates a new team. Because of the high MMR, other teams won't lose much rating against them. But because of their low team rating, they will gain a lot of rating.

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bobsmyname
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Re: [TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

#26 » Post by bobsmyname » 10 Jun 2020 00:56

My knowledge was the rating returns were based on rating difference, not a combination. That might've been pre 3.1 tho, so apologies
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Roel
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Re: [TW & PW] New Arena and RBG Changes

#27 » Post by Roel » 12 Jun 2020 16:03

psycroptyk wrote:
09 Jun 2020 22:09
On another note arena becomes almost unplayable once u hit the 5 minute wait mmr gap
Bradonja wrote:
09 Jun 2020 22:22
Yeah... if you could just remove or reduce the wait time for arena game to pop due to MMR difference, there would be no need for these changes in the first place
Wait times have been significantly reduced with 2 minutes maximum for 500+ MMR difference.

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